Author Topic: issues and suggestions V24.0  (Read 70 times)

issues and suggestions V24.0
« on: August 08, 2018, 01:10:31 PM »
ok so I played a game through 328 turns.  I'm currently on an unrecoverable crash, so I thought I would  take some time to review the game in the current version. the map being discussed is the july 26th group game.

If you read my previous post the other day, I mentioned an increase in the challenge of the game and some changes that were uncomfortable.  I found ways to forge ahead and overcome these changes.  The biggest adjustment I had to make was my initial priorities.  the top priority in this game is getting wood going.  Its' not real clear, but logging production is now based upon +1 wood per surrounding square of woods around the logger.  Therefore, you have to find a forest and put down your logging camp there.  When the camp taps out, you lose all the forest around the logger as well.  This makes it critical to get stone up asap and build a woodworks.

Additionally, some of the civs start significantly advanced.  in this game, the Lombards (pink) directly to the south start with a cattle ranch, sheep ranch, iron mine, salt mine, vineyard, and wheat farm.  they also have 2 warriors and 3 bandit camps in their territory, so attacking them takes some planning.  Having a Civ start so far ahead of you makes the game more defensive and, at least for me, pushed me to move north and west.  Unfortunately, there is a Roman camp directly west, so that makes 2 expansion paths not possible early on.

about 5 or so recruits in, I got a livestock guy, so I did something I never did in previous play throughs, I used the fishing boat.  This was a game saving moment for me as my food options were limited.  I did not want to use a hunter on the sheep and deer to the north, as I needed cloth and parchment.  There is not a river nearby, so I could not put up a trader to buy these resouces (cloth and parchment) until much later in the game.

Here are some items that I liked and disliked about the current version:
-  too many demanding characters that refuse to switch trades.  I found it hard to get a farmer with so many of the initial clans restricting me to metalworks, honor, discovery, and livestock.  Oddly enough, a batch of agriculture guys come through right after I no longer needed them.
-  Baldric has a permanent "Sullen" trait, which makes her upset all the time.  she also has a "gains no experience unless in a social trade" trait, which means she has to work in the camp.  This creates a lower mood with other clans and you cannot fire her.  You can, I suppose, send her to get captured by bandits, but that's a workaround
-  On several occasions I had no choice but to punish a character.  Let's take Hilbrand for example.  He was an honor camp guy of mine  and he had a conflict with someone else in the camp that required me to punish one of them.  I could not just separate them as the other clan would be upset for their desire of him being punished not getting fulfilled.  So I punish HIllbrand and now he has a PERMANENT trait of refusing to work.  The only things I could do was give him alcohol (this is a temporary work around) and move him to be a farming apprentice. 

again this is silly that you have to use an unworkable characters or send them to their deaths.  There should be a way to resolve disputes and allow them, over a few turns, to get back to at least being neutral. Otherwise, maybe you could have the option to put them into slavery, whereas you would get a discount of food use, but would have no family growth and reduced production. 

-  I like the shepherd idea and used it.  However, I was extremely disappointed when I put up 2 sheep ranches and discovered that the +1.25 sheet per turn only applied 1x, when it should have applied to each ranch, giving me 2.5 sheep per turn.  as a result, my grand plan of using 2.5 sheep per turn to make both cloth and meat failed.  This should be fixed

-  galleys dont' work.  There is some great land directly east of your starting position, but you have to either walk through unfriendly territory or sail.  When I tried to move my camp, spearmen, and explorer onto the galley, the option is greyed out (merge armies). 

-  The food production counter is broken.  Currently I have 263 food, 2 wheat farms, a butcher, a cheesemaker, baker, breadmaker, briner and plenty of salt.  However, it shows my food at -0.1 .  Additionally, the briner and cheesemaker apparently don't work at all as I have no stocks of preserves or meat.  In version 23, if you check my attached game file, I had over 1000 preserves using the briner with salt and meat.

-  the flax plantation doesn't appear to be balanced correctly. it is located to the west of my main camp, along the border with the Romans.  It only produces 4 flax per turn with an apprentice and some upgrade boosts.  However, the wheat plantation to the South / Southwest of my main camp produces +42 wheat per turn.  why is it that one farm can be a +42 and a mine can be at +21, but a flax plantation is only at +4.  in order to use the tailer, you need +8 flax per turn.  this puts me at -4 per turn.

-  apprentice upgrades do not scale balanced with output.  For example, I have 2 iron mines.  why do I have 2, well because the 2 mines produce a total of 46 iron per turn.  However, if you  go with 1 mine and an apprentice, your output reduces to 23  Even after some character upgrades with boards, you can increase the apprentice to +9 iron, making your output +32 .  This is applicable to all mines, not just iron.  yes there is an offset of having to use 20 stone to make a second mine, but I feel the sacrifice is well worth it for +14 extra iron per turn.

-  Im not at all on board with how attacking other civs work.  There appears to be absolutely no benefit to capturing another civ.  you turn off their production, but you have to keep a soldier there to prevent them from restarting.  It should be like Civ 5 where you cap their city and you get all of their resources and territory.  If you see my game, I cannot expand south and take advantage of the horses, cattle, salt, unidentified plant and vineyard because they are in alemanni and Lombard territory, even though the Lombards and Alemani are effectively defeated. 

-  There is a neutral wheat farm right next to the Alemanni.  I cannot capture that farm.  when I put my spearmen to attack, the command is ignored.  I had 3 spearmen against 1 neutral warrior, so it should not be a problem to cap that farm.  it may have something to do with it being in alemanni territory, but I don't know.

-  fishing camps.  Currently you can only forage for fish, however, fish do not regenerate.  It would seem to me that if you can build permanent wheat farms that don't exhaust, you should be able to build fisheries.  Once I exhausted all the fish, I had to move my camp back to the water and bring in my fisher for retraining

-  I find the desire to be in a warm place to be an aggravating problem that takes away from the game.  I had two characters, Alman, who had to be in discovery, and Ogier, who has to be in honor, both moving back and forth into the camp to meet this request.  Alman was an explorer, which really wrecked me when she was 20 squares from my base in winter.  she ended up getting angry.  Ogier had to be removed from my army and retrained in camp.  This meant retraining a camp honor guy to be a spearman.

-  I will bring up the issue again with "dig in."  there should be a warning or automatic disengage of "dig in" when winter hits, so the characters don't lose health without you realizing what's going on.  my 3 man spearman army had to disengage and spend 10 turns in winter going back to heal due to this.

-  There need to be more optional pop up windows to track resource production vs. use, as well as who is doing what and when. 

It s very time consuming to have to constantly click on field staff and make sure they are not upset or have useable upgrades that I'm not aware of.  In the camp, you can see pretty clearly who's doing what, however, you can't tell if you're optimized and if someone is even being useful.  When winter hits and farms go offline, there is not message saying, "hey, your breadmaker is offline as there's no wheat. you should retrain them for the winter" 

Additionally, you can have an apprentice feuding with a miner and be totally unaware that this is going on.  you may be losing up to 9 materials per turn for no reason at all.  worst case, your miner gets to the point where he refuses to work and you have to abandon the mine.

-  there are some problems with the Enoble skill.  some tribes can get it , some crash the game when you enoble them.  For example, I wanted to enoble either Biegel or Faramond so they could be scribes.  However, both crash the game when you try to enoble them.  Oddly enough, you can enoble manheim and alderman, who are both in honor.  YOu may have noticed I have 2 tinkerers, this is the reason. 

as a final note, I found it to be funny that the Arnold Swartzeneggar portrait guy was named Manheim, as that was the name of Arnold's character in the movie Escape Plan.

I think I've said enough for right now.  my game file is attached, HOWEVER, be warned that it will crash on turn 328 no matter what you do.  please use it for reference and instruction as you see fit.


« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 01:24:17 PM by clayffo »

Re: issues and suggestions V24.0
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2018, 07:02:46 PM »
I want to talk about kingdoms in this message.  I played 328 turns on the attached play through without establishing a kingdom and I felt no need to do so.  in fact, If Jon can fix my issues, I will continue on without a kingdom.  after doing some reading on Germanic kingdoms of this era, I noticed a few issues that are not addressed in this game, but impact the value of kingdoms (or lack thereof)

-  the most fundamental difference between a  tribe and a kingdom is how it is managed.  Tribes were nomadic and collective in decision making.  Generally the strongest warriors  would make the tribal decisions with the support of a chief. 

as I start a game, yes, generally all of my decisions are based on the collective best interests.  I don't train people necessarily on their preferences but on what we need.  as problems arise, of course things get shuffled around.   I move the tribe around as needed to get the resources wanted.  even at turn 328 I, as the player, have very limited control in how I can influence the tribes behavior.  They can revolt on me with very limited consequences.  (punishment actually hurts me, not them)

a Germanic kingdom took to the influence of Rome in structure and was of 3 parts, King, a Noble court, and Religious leadership.  Additionally, they became more "Roman" in their adoption of language, culture, and technology.  Finally, a kingdom existed in an area of absolute control, control of the borders, control of the Roman peoples living in the countryside, and control of governance (Romans were not represented in the court)

Evaluating the "kingdom" decision in this game, I see none of the characteristics consistent with a true Germanic kingdom.  You get a very small amount of ongoing fame and a little bit of control. 

 I would like to see some items consistent with a kingdom to include:

- a castle with the surrounding support of a town.  Castles shall allow for additional bonuses such as gold production, military training, and food production
- ability to  create a garrison and build garrison troops
- establish a King and Noble council who will have special skill trese designed for different leadership styles (bonuses to war, commerce, governance, etc) and an ability to enforce compliance of its' peoples
   It will require you to remove people from the current camp roster screen and create a second screen for the King and Nobles.
- great expansion of territory granted (5 or more control points)
- automatic granting of watchmen to maintain security of the kingdom.  areas of control shall give bonuses to defense and reduce enemy movement)
- Establishment of a church and a new tech tree for religion
- ability to conquer and own other AI tribe camps.  camps shall turn into towns with greater control and bonuses to production
- establishment of trade routes and influence over goods on the market
- improved ability to acquire high level troops, such as knights and man-of-war

I think the cost of establishing a kingdom should be considerably higher to offset the benefits.

Additionally, because this game is clearly not a 300 turn game as was originally designed, I would like the high end cap for clans to be extended from 52 to 75
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 05:45:21 PM by clayffo »